Twilight Book Burning By Portland Vampires

Well, one of the great things about living in America is that you have to a large degree the freedom of expression (No yelling “fire” in a crowded theater, and all that.). Granted the above seems to be a theatrical-type street event, but in our opinion, it’s hard to see any book burned under any circumstance. It just brings to mind images of very unfortunate events in history. What’s your take?

Via RPattzNews


  1. I think it’s very sad to burn any books, regardless of what they are. 🙁 It just breaks my heart. I even had issues watching Inkheart when they burnt the books in the aunt’s library and that was in a movie!

  2. He’s against the stereotyping of vampires, ok, so why are you dressed like Dracula?

  3. Wow, this is just dumb. These people are dumb. Disappointing and annoying.

  4. That was just disturbing.

  5. All I have to say is anyone Burning books is an idiot. And like the person said above me…He’s dressed as Dracula…way to stereotype vamps. I’m pretty sure the “Real Vamps” who live the “Vamp Lifestyle” would be against these kinds of people too. They’re hypocrites not seeing that their perception of “Vamps” is just as stereotypical as any one elses perception of them. So stupid, do they think by Burning the Books it’s going to change the fact that it is a BEST SELLER or a WORLD WIDE PHENOMENON? Nope sorry people you’re little book burning doesn’t do anything but make you look like idiots. They say us TwiHards have no life…obviously they don’t if they’re burning books. No matter how much I hate I book I would never burn,rip,or ruin it. Because I know how hard that author worked on their story. It’s disrespectful, especially in a day where kids have less access to books. These books could have been donated to give someone the chance to read. Not to mention the pollution they’re causing by burning the books…so damn stupid. SMH

  6. I hate to see any peace of literature get burned. It is in my opinion wrong. If you don’t like it don’t read it. It is annoying to hear about something like this. There are some books that I would love to have.

  7. And im a jerk when i say vampires don’t have fangs?

  8. This seemed more a publicity stunt than anything else. If they want to waste money like that, let ’em, I say. Morons.

    • Yup. I bet the performer was passing out business cards. Well you know, as long as people had fun and no one got hurt… The event didn’t seem serious to me.

  9. Burning books, though legal, is saddening no matter what the book…or that anyone would focus their efforts and attention on any fictional books like the Twilight Series. With all the books out there that are filled with teaching hatred, you would think grown adults would exert their freedoms for a worthy cause.

    Then again, it doesn’t surprise me–I look at the state of our nation.

  10. I’m a middle-aged man who has read all of the Twilight books, including the graphic novel and Midnight Sun (from SM’s website). Don’t try to burn my Twilight books!

    I think it is pathetic and stupid when any fandom trashes a similar fandom. Most of the criticisms made against Twilight were also made years ago against Buffy and before that, Anne Rice’s vampires. (Glampires, romance novel, feminized, juvenile, watering down vamps etc. The works.) But now Buffy and Anne Rice fans trash Twilight. As do fans of Let The Right One In, which is about even younger adolescent human-vampire romance. (Aside: I like Let Me In/LTROI. And 30 Days of Night, I Am Legend, Vampire Diaries etc. But I’m not supposed to like Twilight?!)

    Goths, deathrockers, and the related subculture of pseudovampires are the last people who should make fun of others for the way they dress, what music they listen to, or what books they read, given that they’re always told that they’re being ridiculous. (I dressed in black and listened to vampire-themed death rock in high school, which was a quarter century ago.)

    Some of the Twi-haters’ gripes make no sense at all. Beautiful, seductive vampires? Check out the classic 1874 novella Carmilla. Vampires that walk around in sunlight? Dracula, Carmilla, Ruthven… In fact, vampires burning in sunlight was an invention of the 1922 film Nosferatu.

    • Amen! I’ve heard of Carmillia but have never read it. I think I might now 🙂

    • I’m glad to see someone so mature and knowledge is also a twilight fan. I managed to read tidbits of many classical books when doing a conference about Twilight and I also found the elements Smeyer used as something you could find around vampire lord if only you have eyes and an open mind. Sadly that seems to be scarce nowdays. Kudos to you!

    • Gigi Cullen says:

      Perfectly said Halek.

    • Gigi Cullen says:

      Did anyone else notice that “Burning” is spelled wrong in the title of this article?

      Guess SM’s version of a vampire was portraying them incorrectly. Guess they want to feared and loathed? Ok, I get it but book burning doesn’t can you scary in my eyes, it just makes you ingnorant and scared. Very sad indeed.

    • Well said -if they don’t like the Twilight series, that’s fine but I think burning books (any book) and involving young kids – I saw several of them is really sad. I like the traditional vampire where they suck blood, kill and turn people into vampires but I also think there is something unique and beautiful about the Twilight vampires which sends a positive message where you can turn a negative aspect of your life (being a vampire) into a positive one (abstaining from killing people to get blood). Obviously the idiot in this video is just seeking publicity and like a lot of others before him is using Twilight to do it. End of rant.

  11. Besides the fact that the man was obvously in it for the theatrics and the fame, and he no idea what he was really talking about,and it’s a tragity for books to be burned reguardless what is written in them, they were burning SM’s books, right? That means they had to have bought them.

    Sooo you’re supporting SM and Twilight, even if the books get burned in the end.

    In closing: these people clearly didn’t think this one through.

    • I agree. They’re idiocy cost them what, 10 to 23 bucks a pop? Stephenie Meyer may have written a book they didn’t like, but she’s not the idiot burning her own dollars and cents… on something she didn’t like. *Stupidity is a disease I’d rather not catch from these folks, so I won’t bother watching the remainder of the video* 🙂

  12. I agree that it was just a publicity stunt, but it makes me sad. While freedom of expression allows them to burn books, the very act is in a sense trying to take away someone else’s freedom of expression.

    It’s just another example of our society’s ignorance and self righteousness.

  13. Jacqueline says:

    Whats funny is that someone had to purchase these books. So in a sense they are burning their own money.

    • Oh, Marvelous Things says:

      Exactly. It reminds me of when religious extremists burned Harry Potter books because of their objections to witchcraft. By buying hundreds of the books you are going to burn, you are contributing to the fact that it is a best-seller! Doh.

  14. I agree these peoples are stupid to burn books if they don’t like vampire fine don’t buy and burn the books talking about that . Books are culture and a part of our imaginary SM. Write.them to make us travel in and make us dream and it work for me I’m 28 year old don’t burn my twilight book cuz I’m reading them again even if I know them by heart. Thank stephenie Meyer

  15. my first thoughts on seeing that is just, “oh that’s sad.” -and somehow it hurts me personally. i don’t know why but burning something publicly seems like such a hateful personal attack. do they mean it that way or am i just emotional?

    • I feel the same way – that it’s kind of a personal attack. These people are idiots. They want to enjoy their vampires but don’t want us to enjoy ours. The Twilight story is beautiful and uplifting – I guess that is why they hate it.

  16. this is preposterous,
    twilight vampires awesome, i know i would like to be one of them not the what was previously the perceptions of vampires
    and i would absolutely love to have a superpower

  17. This is just awful in many ways!! Would be nice if those people got fined for burning the books. Here in my state you have to have a fire permit in order to burn anything in city limits. There really should be a law against burning books!!

    I am glad my children didn’t see this!! I sure wouldn’t want my children to see things like this and give them an idea thinking it is okay to burn any book.

    If it was not for Twilight,I would not own the number of books that I have now!! Plus, being in a book club! Thanks Stephenie for opening others hearts and minds! Vampires can sparkle all they want!! ~hugs~

  18. first of all, they are burning their money. and second, this is complety ridiculous!!! it is pethetic and sad, cuz it’s the only thing they do.

  19. All I have to say is that….if I were Stephanie I’d be sitting back laughing at my computer with my bank account page open watching my balance go every time one of those idoits buys one of her books to burn. Burn away man and keep putting money in her pocket. It’s like when people are outraged about music so they go buy a ton of that person’s CD’s and then destroys them. Mean while you’ve just supplied the band with enough money to go on tour….hahahah Keeping laughing SM…all the way to the bank!!!!

  20. Og my… no-lifers. I’m laughing, seriously.

  21. Oh my, low-lifers.. seriously, I’m laughing

  22. I am absolutely horrified. Books are one of the most prescious things on the planet. I live in Africa and there are children here that will never be able to own a book of their own.The fact that these idiots could burn something so valuable is beyond me.

    The fact that they could burn books that have made such a difference to my life and the lives of many other people just makes my blood boil!

    Stephenie Meyer has inspired many people by doing what she is so good at and somebody burning her work is just ridiculous!

  23. Burning books accomplishes nothing but a little attention for yourself (the burner). Get over yourself! If you don’t like the books, don’t read them!

  24. I’m completely offended and horrified. As a die-hard Twilight Mom, I believe the burning of any books is wrong, and the burning of the Twilight books… there are just no words. These people are idiots.

  25. you shouldn’t burn books! end of story! no matter what they are and how crappy you think they are! Erich Kaestner a german author who watched the Nazis burn his books said that “where you burn books soon you’ll burn humans” so yeah. books should not be burned under any circumstances.

    • So well said Lisa! While this garbage assaulted my eyeballs all I could think was three little words. W…T…H? This entire stunt is a complete contridiction on so many levels.No form of the written word should ever be destroyed for any reason because there’s never a reason good enough. This pretend vamp guy is the most asinine thing I’ve seen in years. For the love of all that is beautiful and holy, if you don’t like twilight keep your damn mouth shut because those of us who do couldn’t care less what you think.

  26. Ok, book burning = bad. Burning books that I love = sad. At least Stephenie got the royalties, because these people had to purchase the books to have them for burning. Who really won this? I would say point Stephenie.

  27. Was this a joke? …This was all sorts of wrong.

  28. It is sad to see such a thing as a book to be burned and I can not believe our society has resorted back to this behavior. These people are obviously morons for doing such a thing and it just proves how ignorant they are for doing it, they are a waste of time. Books are a precious resource and should never be burned!

  29. Hey everyone,

    Look at it this way…SM gets more cash from these morons buying her book and thus supporting her and her works (betcha they didn’t think of THAT) 😉 AND since this is all over the internet now, SM and Twilight is getting even more publicity. (Not that she needed it, for sure!)

    Remember God looks after fools and children 😉

  30. A couple of things…
    1) There is so much stupid in this video, my head almost exploded. Vampires aren’t real. Why is that a hard concept for people to grasp?
    2) Book burnings are accomplishing the exact opposite of what they’re meant to. It’s about boycotting the book, right? Okay, that’s all good, but you have to buy the book and then burn it. Way to go, idiots.
    And 3) How can anyone take a guy wearing make up and a cape and fake fangs seriously?

    • Agreed! The funny thing to me too is that by being all theatrical, they’re probably trying to bring attention to whatever weird group they’re a part of. They’re obviously going for shock value. But really they’re just bringing more attention to the one thing they say they don’t like-Twilight!!

      Also, if you truly dislike someone’s work, there are better, more mature ways of going about expressing it. It’s just plain disrespectful to burn someone else’s work. You may not like it, but like you, authors have freedom of speech. That’s why there’s so many genres and books-everyone has different tastes. Regardless of whether you like it, that author poured their heart, soul, time, and hard work into their novel. If they think it’s so bad, what are THEY writing that’s so much better??

    • Lauren, well said!

  31. That was funny, that guy looked and sounded like an idiot! Glad Stephanie got paid though, they had to buy the books to burn them.

  32. This is just stupidity, not to mention that book burning is something the nazis did. Not an example I’d want to follow. I just don’t understand why SM is being jumped on. I love vampire books and have read Rice, Meyer, Mead, Harris, Caste and others. They all have their own spin, some others even include vampires who can be up during the day and have sex with humans.

  33. That was 45 seconds of my life I will never get back. Vampires lovers protesting because the vampires in the Twilight books are not “Vampire” enough? Are you kidding me? Are these the same people that file lawsuits because the coffee they spilled on themselves was too hot? Give me a break. I would really hope that no more attention is given to this rediculous display of ignorance. It saddens me to see any work destroyed. It really truly does. However, the publishing company will be more than happy to make more copies if they choose to keep buying them. If you don’t like a book, don’t read it. A two year old actually understands that concept. Did they really think they accomplished anything by doing what they did? The “head” vampire did NOT have fangs by the way. JUST SAYING!

  34. Meh. If they want to burn books, let ’em.

    These haters shelled out the cash for those books and – regardless of whether they’re going to be read or burned – Stephanie Meyer gets the royalties and the Twilight saga gets the statistical boost in popularity. That will say a whole lot more when all is said and done than some obscure group of people having a public hissy fit over something they don’t like.

    So burn away. It all looks like reader interest when it boils down to the numbers.

    • Unfortunately, it’s not about the numbers or the money. Book burning in its own way is an act of violence.
      Any time you use destructive methods to protest another beliefs because they don’t match your own is a form of violence. It encourages a mob mentality.

      • Joshua Roberts says:

        As far as I know Twilight is not a religious text, so it has nothing to do with beliefs. It’s one’s opinion vs. another’s.

        Book burning is the purest form of deliberate ignorance. Through out history those who practiced book burning were those who wished to stop the further education and enlightenment of others. In short they wanted to squelch all other opinions, but their own.

        The sad reality is, most people who typically practice book burning have never READ the text. The doofs that burned the Harry Potter texts a few years back, never even read the books, so their whole concept of how horrible the books were, were largely based on rumor and speculation, versus actual content.

        As many have already stated… Vampires are fictional characters… While there are individuals who practice a “vampire” lifestyle, they themselves aren’t real vampires based upon actual lore. You have almost limitless options when creating vampires… or for that matter werewolves, so it is foolish for one to bemoun one variant vs. another, as in the end they are all fictional, and their characteristics are made to be used within the context of the narrative.

        • Joshua I couldn’t agree more. You had hit the nail on the head. For writers their stories are what they make of them and no one should judge what is a right or wrong wrong way a story or character should be because in the end no one is correct, that is why a fictional writer is who they are it is their imagination.

          • Joshua Roberts says:

            Exactly it is the writer that sets the tone, mythology, and the rules of their world, and as long as they effectively present it, anything goes.

        • Well said, Joshua. What these people are doing is really just a form of consumer protest – though even THAT seems like too strong a term for the activity. It’s a little like sports fans burning (or otherwise mocking) an effigy of the opponent’s mascot.

          Again, they’re just an obscure group. They were just doing something to get attention; they weren’t trying to take action against Meyer or her works (and with a ring leader and a “cause” so ludricrous, they COULDN’T instill any serious change if they wanted to).

          Book banning, while not nearly as dramatic, is much more harmful than what we see in this video. Book ban requests usually take the form of well thought-out letters and protests by people who present themselves as unbiased and professional. Those scholars, politicians, and “conscientious citizens” are the destructive means that have a chance of getting noticed and acted upon… not people in theatrical make-up and special effect contact lenses.

        • Ok-I’ll agree that “beliefs” may have been the wrong word to use in that context. I’m well aware that Twilight is not a religious text. Should that make a difference?

          It doesn’t change the fact that whether book burning is done as an act of ignorance or plain stupidity–it is still violent by its very nature.

  35. All I can say about this is wow….. these people are obviously not the brightest crayons in the box …..

  36. What was the point in that? seriously like that’s going to change anything. I don’t get these people, if you don’t like Twilight why do you spend your time and energy on hating Twilight? I think that’s pretty sad.

  37. I live in Portland and no matter the reason for this kinda behavior, this act of book burning is ridiculous in every way shape and form. Small minded people live everywhere and it’s a shame that simple minded others follow blindly.

  38. I find this disturbing in so many ways, tragic and quite ‘uneducated’. That they need to take it to this extreme, whether you are a twilight fan or not. Please somebody tell him to do what ‘normal insane’ person would do, start a face book group rant that any ‘sane educated’ person will ignore and have your ‘undead’ hissy fit there. Such a waste.

  39. Aside from the fact that I, like others here, find book burning in general to be disturbing (and here we are at the beginning of the e-Book era anyways, so hey, maybe decades down the road there won’t be books to burn), I find it hard to get too excited about this prank. Yeah, vampires protesting other vampires. Uh huh. And you realize, some people really believe they ARE vampires? They’re perfectly normal, right?

  40. Has anyone ever research the oldest legend of “Vampires”? If you had you would know “Vampires” are not what we think of them today. They were “soul takers” or “essence taker” or Aura takers they didn’t start sucking blood until the dark ages and that was because of the BLACK PLAGUE and they didn’t burn in the sunlight. After that you got Dracula (like the dude burning books is dressed as talk about stereotyping) and Anne Rice and many other old legends. There are also diseases that could explain the legend of Vampires like Porphyria- look it up.

  41. And who is forcing these “vampires” to read Twilight? Don’t like it, don’t read it. Simple as that.

  42. “That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also.” – Heinrich Heine, Almansor

  43. The fact that someone would spend money to buy a book just to burn it makes me realize just how insecure some people are. What is the point? Yes I realize that this is a free country with freedom of speech, but good Lord, do these people remember anything about history? The one thing that comes to mind is Hitler and the book burnings that went on when he was in power among the horrible things that happened. Granted this childish, immature act on this video isn’t anything to the magnitude of what went on during Hitler’s time, but it makes you wonder when people do things like this.

  44. Dear Mr. Real-Vampire,

    Your publicity stunt makes me sad. Not just because of the blatent disrespect towards the Twilight novels by your inferior and trite Halloween-Spook-House based on “real” vampires, but this fake sacrificial act, (burning anything is an ultimate and finite message), perpetuates hate. These kids (and adults) around that barrier are truly into this, they’re mad; shouting out profanities about a series of books that are PURE fantasy from one woman’s successful vision of a story that is her opinion and therefore her right to express it. How can ones hate of *anything* come to this? LEST WE FORGET that there are people around the globe that can’t afford TEXT BOOKS for school, not to mention casual literature for pleasure.

    Mr. Real-Vampire, your ranting about “bloodthirsty creatures of the night” is ludicrous. You most likely bought your creepy eyes from a source that supplies TWILIGHT-esque contact lenses. They probably sell Snake eyes, 8 Balls and HELLO KITTY lenses as well. Your costume is loosely based off of another persons romantic interpretation of vampires…which would be Universal Studios very own Dracula-Bela Lugosi. And what really is a “real” vampire? Count Orlok? Count Dracula? Blackula? Lestat? Angel? Edward? Stefan? Grandpa Munster? Those creepy cave vampire from “THE DESCENT”? Oh my, it looks like there are too many to mention. It’s because it’s all a matter of opinion.

    There are many vampire-genre lovers in this world. We will never all see eye-to-eye, but the least we can do is respect each other. Burning books in this manner doesn’t send any message except that you’re looking for attention for yourself or to promote your aformentioned Halloween spook-house.

    This is truly a disheartening, tacky, gaudy publicity stunt, but Mr.Real-Vampire, I don’t hate you. Not in the slightest. I’m not even going to hold a counter book burning with dozens of copies of Bram Stokers literature. I respect your vision that lies deep within your imagination. Because after all, that’s where the *REAL* vampires exist.

    John Henson
    Costume Designer
    The Hillywood Show

  45. I realize that we have the right to freedom of press, religion and speech, but this is ridiculously stupid. I see a group of “Wimpires” wanting 15 minutes of fame, so that they can “use the excuse” that Stephanie Meyer makes the vampires in her books look like their from the band “The Cure”, first of all “VAMP” who was telling the story, you look like a dork with cheap makeup. Tammy Faye Baker does better than you! Secondly, your attempt to make yourself come off as serious, is horribly done. In fact you, your Vampire chick that was picking up pieces of the books and helping the little kids throw them into the barrel, looks more like medusa than a Vampire. Lastly, you only attract little kids???

    I would have taken this serious had it been a Church or Organization that was seriously protesting the “Demonology” as they usually like to spew about books. But this is just in one plain word “RETARDED” and you should have been arrested on stupidity in public and wasting good books to heat the night air. You’ve done nothing but make us laugh in your general direction and mock your stupidity that has become not not your 15 minutes of fame but more like 2 min. of fame. You’re not worth a full 15 min.

    BTW, if Vampires were real in the sense that books portray. You would have been killed by now, because of your lack of common sense alone.

    • LOL Angela. That was too funny. In response to your last comment-I’d like to see Jane meet with these folks for a few minutes! Show them what’s up!

  46. I love Stephanie Meyer’s spin on Vampires and millions upon millions alone from across the WORLD would agree with me. The box office returns from the 3 movies alone so far along with book sales tell the truth. Also I love that you think you’re making a statement that she created bad vampires…but Thank You, for buying her books so that you could make your point. You made my day of laughter and you looking stupid because you just supported Stephanie by buying her books to burn. And if you DIDN’T then someone did. So I would like to thank you on behalf of the millions of fans for supporting Stephanie and her book company. lol

    You truly are morons looking for fame. TOO bad that no one takes you seriously because you’re dressed terribly as a vampire yourself and only attracting little kids who obviously was wanting a chance to be on television doing something you told them was cool!

  47. looks like they are wasting money that other people dont have to waste right now. but least they are helping out the economy and in this event they are giving money to who they say they hate….funny how that kinda back fired on them….

  48. Ah, that is painful to see. Not just because it’s twilight, but because burning books is such a dramatic thing to do and so sad I think.

  49. wow……Did someone wake up one day and decide “I think I will use my freedom of speech right to act like a complete moron”?

    Yes it appears they did.

    What a waste….

  50. I did not watch the video. Not because it didn’t work, but because I deliberately refused to waste a-minute-and-something of my life watching such an act of ignorance. The idea of burning a book – any book, I’m not just saying this because it’s Twilight – disgusts me. Perhaps it’s because I’m a huge bookworm, and to me seeing a book burn is like watching a friend being painfully burnt at the stake (no, I’m not exaggerating).

    Anyway, as many people have said before me, someone, don’t ask me who, had to buy the books in order for those ignorants to burn them, right? Perhaps those people need to look up the word “boycott” in a dictionary, because I don’t think they know exactly what it means. Maybe, if they read more books instead of burning them, they would actually learn something useful.

    And why, WHY did they burn the books anyway? Because they don’t like Stephenie’s portrayal of vampires? That is completely and utterly ridiculous!
    Okay, so they sparkle in the sunlight instead of burning to a cinder. So what? The sparkling effect might seem inappropriate or just plain funny to those who are used to the old scary stereotype, but what if the audience is sick and tired of that? Huh?
    By the way, sunlight isn’t lethal to ALL vampires. They should get their facts right and make sure their tongues are correctly connected to their brains before they talk about something they THINK they know. If all the authors who wrote about vampires who don’t necessarily burn in sunlight are wrong, Bram Stoker was an idiot and his 1897 masterpiece, Dracula, should never have become such a huge piece of history of the horror genre. Why don’t they burn their precious copies of Dracula too? If it’s the sunlight issue that bothers them, then technically they should.
    Or is it because they don’t think Twilight vamps are terrifying enough? Then they should read the books and think again. True, some of Steph’s vampires are good-hearted and don’t quite fit the typical profile of the “evil, ruthless monster”, but all of them – the good AND the bad ones – are potentially dangerous, even more so than some “classical” ones, since you can’t stop them by using holy symbols or barricading yourself in a private building they haven’t been invited into. Of course, those can be regarded as “mistakes” Stephenie has committed, since technically she has ignored the standard vampiric disabilities, but you know what? It’s called creativity. Some writers have chosen to play by the rules, others have ignored them; there is no “right” or “wrong” choice. It’s fiction. If Steph had created a world where, say, vampires have no reflection (another issue that the so-called “purists” might bring up) and then, AFTER setting that rule, she had broken it by describing a scene in which one of her vampires reflected in a mirror, then they would be right, because it would be a huge contradiction. Has she done that? No, she hasn’t. She clearly stated that in the Twilight universe, which is HER universe, with HER rules (that’s what’s so cool about writing: it’s your world and you can decide how things work!), most legends about vampires are false and were created and spread as false reassurances and/or attempts to set humans on the wrong track. On these premises, she has every right to make Edward climb into Bella’s room without her explicit invitation, to make her take pictures of the Cullens at her disastrous birthday party, to decide that the gorgeous Rosalie owns a huge mirror she can actually use, and last but not least to make her vampires sparkle.

    • YOU GO GIRL! 😀
      I agree with EVERYTHING you said(:
      Your absolutely right!

    • Scherbatsky says:

      I can’t lie. I didn’t read all of what you wrote but I agree with what I did read. It is disgusting. I first saw this video on the bus on the news.

      All I really heard and saw was some idiot dressed as Dracula saying, “Vampires are supposed to be scary, evil,…” etc. “These are so fake…” and yada yada and so forth.

      I says to myself Aren’t ALL vampires fake and imaginary??? Hello! Who are we to judge which are more “fake” than others?

      It also annoyed me of all thosa anti-twilighters saying Oh these twilight fans have no life, and it’s like,….Uh, look at how you spend your days. As if YOUR lives aren’t all revolving around twilight as well??? Morons, really, are all they are in my opinion.

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